Re: [BCAB] Mac migration Chris Moore 25 Sep 2011 08:30 BST

I totally know what you mean.  Mind you , I did switch quick nav back on yesterday and used the single letter navigation to put the lottery on lol.  It does work well.

JAWS is far superior then Mac for highlighting text on a web page and being able to move by line.

Have you guys checked out Mark Taylor's demo of Narrator for Windows 8?  I am quite impressed, seems very VO like.

This is a win win for accessibility and innovation.

Chris
On 24 Sep 2011, at 16:09, David Taylor wrote:

> Hi,
>
> Now we're getting into interesting territory. When I have to go back to Windows, I also miss those things. I find it tiresome not to be able to get where I want so quickly. I hate having to move my hands between arrows, keyboard and enter key and really miss the Mac ways of working. I use single letters sometimes rather than repeated presses of rota keystrokes, but then go straight back more often than not. Using the JAWS cursor with a laptop is really difficult to me for reading static text etc when I'm used to how VO does it. There is the odd time when I think Windows does things better than Mac, but actually many of them were in XP rather than 7, like accessing favourites without having to launch anything or search, but then I launch something and am reminded of why I switched!
>
> Cheers
> Dave
>
> On 24 Sep 2011, at 08:00, Chris Moore wrote:
>
>> I agree,
>> I just prefer to use the rotar instead of using single key strokes.  I guess this is because I started using a Mac screen reader before using a Windows one.  So my habits are reversed and I so miss having a rotar when using Windows.  I also miss not being able to interact when using Windows too.
>>
>> However, if the rumours are true, then Microsoft will implement their own version of this called containers.
>>
>>
>> Chris
>> On 23 Sep 2011, at 17:19, David Taylor wrote:
>>
>>> Hi,
>>>
>>> Quick nav is such a useful feature now, I'd advise everybody to use it in apps where they mainly navigate, such as web browsers. I've used activities to control how it works. I find so many sites so much easier to browse not having to move my hands at all from the arrow keys, and the way they work with the single letter navigation is great. The new  fast searching feature, where you can set one command key so that with you press it with a letter, VO finds the next element starting with that letter, which works in all apps, is also really powerful. That also saves many keystrokes.
>>>
>>> Believe it or not, Mac is all about choice, there are no right or wrong answers, no one way of doing things. Apple know that people just don't use computers that way.
>>>
>>> Cheers
>>> Dave
>>>
>>> On 23 Sep 2011, at 17:07, Chris Moore wrote:
>>>
>>>> I have to agree with Dave here.
>>>>
>>>> I have a num pad on my iMac and yup it is great.  But my Macbook does not have a num pad, so I do the interact gestures etc via the track pad.  Like Dave said you can assign shortcuts to the keyboard too.
>>>>
>>>> A num pad is not required, but useful if you prefer that way of doing things.
>>>>
>>>> I never use quick nav, I am so used to living without it.
>>>>
>>>> Chris
>>>> On 23 Sep 2011, at 16:25, David Taylor wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> David,
>>>>>
>>>>> My contention is with the notion of an extra keyboard being so strongly recommended. With the new style mail, you should automatically be interacting whenever you need to, in which case I wouldn't use quick nav anyway. It depends how you move between the folder list and messages though, and what I would do is set hot spots in the folder list if you have it shown, and in the message list. By doing that I certainly never have to interact or stop interacting in mail. As I say, it could be a useful feature for some, but it is by no means so important that somebody who has gone for a laptop should feel they need an extra, USB keyboard. Indeed, if they want, they can assign keyboard commander shortcuts to interact and stop interacting. I'm not saying the number pad isn't convenient, I'm just saying to suggest it is so strongly suggested that an extra keyboard is needed is just not a true reflection of the situation.
>>>>>
>>>>> Cheers
>>>>> Dave
>>>>>
>>>>> On 23 Sep 2011, at 14:59, David Griffith wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> I am sorry that you feel so strongly but I still tend to  disagree.
>>>>>> that I have been misleading.    based on my current knowledge and experience.
>>>>>> with the Mac Quick Nav is certainly a useful feature but it does not fit all tasks and functions . I would not consider it as a replacement for the convenience of num pad commander.  So for example if you have quick nab on in certain web pages you then have to turn quick nab off or  to interact once more with edit boxes in  order to enter text..
>>>>>> Also using the modern view in Mail the only way I have found so far of easily expanding a conversation is to turn quick nab off and then press the right arrow key to expand the conversation.. .
>>>>>> I am considering setting up an activity to disable quick  nab automatically in Mail but
>>>>>> this has failed In the Eyepal software I use. In  eyePal   you   You have to remember to disable quick nab as it interferes with the operation of short cut key commands. When I set the activity up I can find eye pal as an application but the Utility refused to proceed with settings. This may be because EyePal is not an native Mac application but an CX11 port from windows.
>>>>>> So in my experience whilst quick nab is a  useful tool  I would never consider it to be equally as convenient as num pad commander.
>>>>>> David Griffith
>>>>>> d.griffith@btinternet.com
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On 23 Sep 2011, at 13:31, David Taylor wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> David,
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I would take strong issue with two points here. I pointed out that the tab key can be set to automatically interact, there's a two key keystroke in quicknav of down-right to interact and down-left to stop interacting and there are trackpad gestures as well. In a laptop set up these are far more convenient than having to have an extra keyboard. Plus, you can only get such keyboards wired, not wireless. Frankly there are choices and to make such a strong statement about the keyboard is misleading. It is a choice that can be made for sure, but don't make people think they have to use the keyboard intensive way when it's simply not true. Secondly, I would say that you won't learn Mac anything like as well if you don't actually use it in anger. Again, I would say that people should switch full time to Mac as soon as they can and try not to use Windows while they switch. But again, each person must make a choice depending on how much time they have to invest and what they need to get done.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Cheers
>>>>>>> Dave
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On 23 Sep 2011, at 13:23, David Griffith wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Firstly whilst it is perfectly possible to use Voiceover with a laptop I strongly recommend that you also get an external keyboard with a numeric numb pad. This makes using Voiceover much less key intensive. So for example a common command in Voiceover is shift control option and and down arrow to interact with an item. The equivalent in num pad commander is a single press of the 9 key.  Navigation and using Voiceover is simply much easier with num pad commander.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> The other thing I would say is that be prepared for a steep learning curve which will eventually reap rewards. Take your time and do not abandon your Windows setup until you are fully conversant with the Mac way of doing things. I have had my Mac for just over a month  and I an still very much learning.  and
>>>>>>>> The final thing is to definitely download the Vision Australia Instructional Podcasts on using Voiceover with the Mac. These excellent podcasts   are produced by David Woodbridge. A Google search will pull these up immediately.
>>>>>>>> Best of luck.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> David d Griffith [
>>>>>>>> David Griffith
>>>>>>>> d.griffith@btinternet.com
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> On 23 Sep 2011, at 09:18, Ian Macrae wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> I'm about to take delivery of a MacBook pro running lion with a view to migrating full time. I'll be checking out online resources but would like to know what people who've made the move would say are the three most  important things I should know up front which are different between mac and pcs from a blind point of view?
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